In Response to a Response
If you don't believe in sin or hell, Christ does not need to save you, does he? If you don't believe in the tenets of Christianity, why call yourself a Christian? I challenge you to actually read the Bible, with an open mind to its being what is claims to be-the inspired Word of God. You are treading on dangerous ground here, in this blog.
First off, I want to thank those who are reading my blog and providing good arguments and criticism. Though, trying to analyze my person and beliefs in this blog is going to be very difficult. There are times I am playing devil's advocate, there are times when I introduce ideas given to me by others, who may or may not be of a Christian orientation. My point is that this blog is very haphazard and disorderly and has much to do with a search for identity.
In Response to the above comment:
It could be that I do believe in hell persay, but not necessarily a fire and brimstone place. It could be physical dying with no immortality of the soul, no tranformation into a heavenly body. I don't know. Nor could I experience it in this physical lifetime. Though I did have a psychology professor who had an out-of-body experience, who actually died for 20 to 30 minutes before being resusitated by the EMTs. His comments are interesting...anyway I'm bunny-trailing...
With regards to sin, I never stated that sin doesn't exist. It does. Am I perfect? Do I act on things when I know them to be wrong? Oh yes. I've done my fair share of sinning. There is no way for me to repay all of my wrong choices. Thus, by God's grace through the life, death, resurrection, and continuing Body of Christ there is a possibility of salvation for those undeserving. Whether because of 'the Fall' or from something else within human nature, all are sinful...no contestation there.
I find Scripture to be enlightening, a source of inspiration, a prophetic book for all the ages of the world, a divinely inspired text, but its message requires much discussion, debate. I must admit that I have devoted much study and exegesis to passages, some moreso than others. The text is foundational to my life as a Christian, without a doubt. Though sometimes I think that portions of its' message are misinterpreted or taken for granted by the masses. For instance, poverty. Christ, for me, came for the poor and marginalized especially, though many western Christians tend to be more concerned with abortion or gay marriage when millions or rather billions starve world-wide.
This view, despite my standpoint on it, can arguably fit within a Christian context and within the 'tenets of Christianity' or at least I can have a good go at it.
First off, I want to thank those who are reading my blog and providing good arguments and criticism. Though, trying to analyze my person and beliefs in this blog is going to be very difficult. There are times I am playing devil's advocate, there are times when I introduce ideas given to me by others, who may or may not be of a Christian orientation. My point is that this blog is very haphazard and disorderly and has much to do with a search for identity.
In Response to the above comment:
It could be that I do believe in hell persay, but not necessarily a fire and brimstone place. It could be physical dying with no immortality of the soul, no tranformation into a heavenly body. I don't know. Nor could I experience it in this physical lifetime. Though I did have a psychology professor who had an out-of-body experience, who actually died for 20 to 30 minutes before being resusitated by the EMTs. His comments are interesting...anyway I'm bunny-trailing...
With regards to sin, I never stated that sin doesn't exist. It does. Am I perfect? Do I act on things when I know them to be wrong? Oh yes. I've done my fair share of sinning. There is no way for me to repay all of my wrong choices. Thus, by God's grace through the life, death, resurrection, and continuing Body of Christ there is a possibility of salvation for those undeserving. Whether because of 'the Fall' or from something else within human nature, all are sinful...no contestation there.
I find Scripture to be enlightening, a source of inspiration, a prophetic book for all the ages of the world, a divinely inspired text, but its message requires much discussion, debate. I must admit that I have devoted much study and exegesis to passages, some moreso than others. The text is foundational to my life as a Christian, without a doubt. Though sometimes I think that portions of its' message are misinterpreted or taken for granted by the masses. For instance, poverty. Christ, for me, came for the poor and marginalized especially, though many western Christians tend to be more concerned with abortion or gay marriage when millions or rather billions starve world-wide.
This view, despite my standpoint on it, can arguably fit within a Christian context and within the 'tenets of Christianity' or at least I can have a good go at it.
posted by Timcom at 1:00 PM
7 Comments:
Thank you for answering my questions. I did not mean to attack you personally. I take words very seriously. I believe that faith comes by hearing God's word. Our intellects can only take us so far. I had more than my share of intellectual discussions in my college years and, in the end, God's word proved to be the only thing I found to "hang my hat on". I will cease in my challenging and offending and wish you well in your search.
Thank you for your incite. I know that you were not really attacking me personally. It takes courage and a voice to speak when core beliefs are challenged, even for me. Belief is one of my top strengths. Intellectual endeavors are part of who I am and I consider them to be worshipful, in the name of God, even if it may seem contrary to His Word. It is the Lord helping me work through these issues. Your comments are warranted and again, I greatly appreciate your incite.
Anyone that falls pray to the insights of books, people, places, or things are prone to the acts of the occult, satanism, and war-mongering. I frankly do not see how one can draw a line between that of intellect and whatever your anonymous reader seems to be. If this man or woman does find their hat being hung on a string of words and hypothesis, I challenge himself to take it one step further and take his argument to the scientific community.
If you indeed think that words define who you are and that little spirits, fairies, devils, or whatever else man can dream up - consist of your ability to govern yourself then these are dark times indeed.
It sounds to me as if this is the new dawn of extremism and isolationism from those that do care. I've been hearing from people like your anonymous reader for quite too long now. Your words have infiltrated our forms of governence, our schools, our entertainment, our coinage, and even into the very rules of law that are created to protect me from your anonymous guest. And things are going to get worse, I am afraid.
If you assert the fact that your persuit of faith is a personal one, then I debate your reasoning of discussing it on a blog to begin with. And if the faith is truly internal as stated from this "book" meant to be read, then why even talk about it at all ? Sounds quite pointless.
"Our intellects can only take us so far. " This line scares me...It really does. You have fallen into the realms of extremism, my friend.
Again, I very much enjoy the various responses. Different points of view are very real.
Faith is not at all completely personal...I am not necessarily promoting a Christian existentialism, thought the idea has merit. Faith always has its foundation in community. To completely personalize faith begins a whole array of problems. The "book" does not promote a personalized faith all on one's own.
I talk about these issues in a blog because the issues are important, because I can, and also because feedback from others is how a person grows. Relationships are important to me. Just internalizing my search is an absurd thought when other people might have some comments, suggestions, questions.
Everyone searches in different ways -- scientifically, religiously, whatever. Depending upon which is considered to be more individually/communally faith-worthy I suppose.
Aside from this blog, I do journal as well. There are some ideas though, that should not necessarily be kept private when others might find the information to be useful in their lives.
YIKES!
To qualify, a personal orientation of heart is required, and the actions in community should exemplify. As a Christian, there is as much a responsibility to others -- a horizontal covenant I would dare call it, in resemblence of a vertical covenant with the Creator. Ironically, a cross-shaped covenant.
To ask controversial questions and discuss controversial ideas can parallel with controversial pieces of art. Does the controversy make it any more or less art? Is any one interpretation correct in the realm of argumentation and criticism when truth is mistaken for the most logical argument? Am I seeking truth?...oh yes...but why would the whole truth be in one person's, one denomination's interpretation? In fact I find much truth (Christ) in Buddhist meditation techniques, in the Hare Krishna openness...Why would truth not exist in culture, in ideas, in rationalizations when truth is metaphysically within everything?
Walking on Water is a fabulous book by Madeleine L'Engle which is very inspiring to me as an artist and as a Christian. Much of what I have talked about here has come from her book.
One interesting aspect is that her art is a communal effort, while her orientation of the heart is personal. She infers a question, "Where would human beings be without a relationship to each other?" Where would we be? Could we know God as well as we do without experiencing relationships with each other?
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